Forum:COPPA
So, it would appear that Wikia believe MSPA Wiki to have a subject that is directed by a notable amount towards children under the age of 13 years, which I rather suspect may be rather bluntly based on the art style of MSPA without due study of the actual content. Consider that MSPA has frequent cursing, pretty frequent innuendo, the sheer horror that is Trickster Mode, DD's smut, et cetera, et cetera. The primary consequence of this, as I'm sure many of you have noticed, is effectively permanent semi-protection of the entire wiki, preventing all anon edits. In order for us to question this ruling, we must provide Wikia with a community discussion on the matter. So, discuss away :Just a minor note unrelated to discussion on this matter but we can edit that appears on . People under 13 even before now were already forbidden from creating accounts, so we can always point this out there (as I saw another wiki do, hence its connection to this discussion), or we can point out our own rules and/or policies. - The Light6 (talk) 08:55, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Well, such a thing would cut down on vandalism... User:Per Ankh ED 17:28, July 1, 2013 (UTC) :So can semi-protecting pages at our own discretion, although semi-protecting is more strict than this because it stops editing by users who are registered but not auto-confirmed. But even then, this applies to ALL pages, even talk pages, talk pages don't receive nearly as much vandalism and also serve to allow anons to raise issues about semi-protected pages, they can't do that now. - The Light6 (talk) 17:56, July 1, 2013 (UTC) :Furthermore, due to the fact that we now have AbuseFilter, we can deal with a fair chunk of the most, ah, memorable vandalism we typically get, meaning the balance of helpful to annoying anons should be shifting in a positive direction. And then this brick wall comes down in the middle of that So is there any upside at all? Any reason why we shouldn't dispute this? -- 20:17, July 1, 2013 (UTC) :Unless there's still a ton of anonymous vandalism now that (once?) the abuse filter is up. Cat (meow ∙ ) 20:39, July 1, 2013 (UTC) ::EDIT CONFLICT: :Nothing has ever stopped underage users making accounts, and nothing will stop them now. The age restriction always has been and always will be nearly impossible to enforce apart from in isolated cases where an underage user admits to being underage. So the legislation is, while fine in principle, utterly useless in practice. :So, that brings us to the impact of anon edits in and of themselves. The extent to which anons are "bad" vs registered users being "good" is always vastly, vastly exaggerated. And even if it weren't, the blocking of anon edits on the wiki on the basis of anon vandalism is entirely irrelevant to the COPPA issue, and therefore is not a valid reason to support COPPA blocks being applied to this wiki. :And most of all, to suggest that MSPA is aimed at kids is just plain stupid. So, no, I don't believe there is any upside whatsoever to us being subjected to the COPPA blocking of anons :Also a good point. User:Per Ankh ED 03:08, July 2, 2013 (UTC) :Personally, I am undecided on how I feel about this. As a registered user, I really do not have much of a stake in this issue, but I do have to say that a change like this really weakens the basic concept of a wiki. Imagine if Wikipedia required registered accounts? Change count would go down a lot. I think this will also be the case here. This is a double-edged sword. Less vanadlism may occur, but also fewer legit page edits. This will ultimately lead to problems including grammar errors going un ficed and content becoming out-of-date in less visited areas. I think this change should not occur. TheOriginalTygon (talk) 04:50, July 2, 2013 (UTC) ::Serious consideration being given to all that was said above. I do agree that we can take care of vandalism in much better ways than before, namely given our new tools. I also agree that Homestuck is clearly targeted towards , I'd say.... 16-30 year olds. And perhaps even MSPA as a whole. So naturally I'm against this change. 05:50, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Clarification: by "new tools" I meant the AbuseFilter we now have to prevent that "memorable vandalism" from ever showing up again, not COPPA's new restictions on us. 23:18, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Contesting our classification OK because this discussion turned into wondering if we should keep it for anti-vandalism reasons instead of whether the decision was correct, I am splitting this discussion in two. The general conclusion was that keeping the classification solely for anti-vandalism reasons is a bad idea. So I recommend just discussing the classification itself now, but if anyone has anything they would like to add regarding keeping it solely for anti-vandalism reasons please put those comments in the section above. - The Light6 (talk) 08:27, July 2, 2013 (UTC) :I think we should have little trouble pointing out to them that MSPA itself is not aimed at kids under 13. Violence, blood, on screen murder/death, sexual themes, language etc. Even the commands etc. are based on a kind of video game genre that younger people hardly know about. and since MSPA is not aimed at that age group we aren't either obviously. 12:08, July 2, 2013 (UTC) ::IMO Jailbreak and Problem Sleuth would probably be the best examples of MSPA not being for kids. (We could also cite South Park, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Family Guy, or various cartoons on Adult Swim as examples of cartoonish-looking stuff that's definitely not for kids.) -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:26, July 3, 2013 (UTC) I feel like this barely needs discussion, that's how obvious the arguments should be towards this not being for kids. Like, BitterLime pretty much just said everything that needs to be said about it. -- 20:11, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Ditto. 23:20, July 2, 2013 (UTC) :It seems pretty clear there's absolute consensus from those who have commented so far. I'd say we should leave this a few more days to see if anyone else has any input, and then we can contact Wikia I agree. MSPA is not for kids! User:Per Ankh ED 02:32, July 6, 2013 (UTC) :It's pretty obvious that wikia has never really looked at mspa before and judges it by it's looks. I think Gordon Ecker made a good point with the fact that South Park, Family Guy etc are all cartoonish but would not be suitable for kids } 20:46, July 9, 2013 (UTC) Message sent to Wikia Good. It better have been. 03:21, July 11, 2013 (UTC) Thanks everyone for having this discussion. It is true that we weren't able to review every wiki with the depth we might have liked, seeing as we had thousands to review we are counting on our users who know their subjects best to set us straight. That being said, I'm not sure I see a convincing argument (yet). It might be obvious to you due to how well you understand MSPA, but I need to be able to make the case to others without the benefit of your in-depth knowledge. Can you point to specific story elements or features that are mature, complex, or otherwise adult? And by that I mean describe them to the level of "In episode X, this character did this TOTALLY ADULT THING THAT KIDS SHOULD NEVER SEE" etc. We do realize that everything animated is for kids, and many of the wikis you mention were not included. I'm not saying no, just asking for more specific evidence. Thanks, --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 22:38, July 11, 2013 (UTC) :Well I guess it might be best to put all this stuff as links to relevant content? :Suicide: has one of the main protagonists commit suicide in response to the other protagonist dying from a fatal injury. In Homestuck in response in being raised in an abusive manner in order to prepare her for a lifetime of being a slave. :Slavery: , (both those examples are in the dialogue (journal) not the images of those pages), , . :Murder: The entire intermission, (it would require linking and/or reading many pages to have that single page put in context so trust us on that), , the above murder of a slave, , really we have an entire page dedicated to listing characters who have died, trying to link all the murders in Homestuck would probable double the size of this entire discussion. :Sexual themes: The rape mentioned in the slavery point, a character who is known to make unwanted advances (this happens as part of an interactive game segment so I can only link to the game not to it actually happening), , which includes such revelations of violent, angry sex, and that the trolls reproduce through an "incestuous slurry". :Religion: . :I mean there is much, much more and I think other people might be willing to point some out if it isn't enough. As for "story elements ... that are ... complex", due to the interlocking nature of various points, the entire story is complex, not just a single element (I often hear readers complaining about being confused about the current events of the plot) with the PBS Idea Channel comparing Homestuck to Ulysses due to its difficulty, Ulysses being one of the most difficult English novels to exist. I hope this helps. - The Light6 (talk) 01:36, July 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Thank you. That is exactly what I needed to see. I have unflagged this wiki. Thanks for your patience. --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 21:18, July 12, 2013 (UTC)